Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. Where is this lightning striking twice? Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. . The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. No picture for me. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. That took a lot. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Grow up, you aint all that! They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. there is no better. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. Search Texas Statutes. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. On Thursday, M.D. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. Canadian soldier. 2. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. A fine of up to $10,000. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! My gun just went off! The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Third, Glock has had problems, too. Great job, this threat needed some levity! Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. I didnt even touch it! And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. Trust a P365 with your life. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. LOL! LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. how do I get one for my P320? Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. Wheee!!. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. About $300. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. It has nothing to do with Glock. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Period. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. Liberal, Conservative. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. , 54 people all shooting themselves. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. . . Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, There were a lot of changes. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. You couldnt ask questions. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. L. LRRifleman . Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. I agree. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. But now, P320 is the subject. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. Nope. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. I dont own a P320. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. Its a novelty, its got issues! Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. He points to it in the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. At the risk of sounding superstitious lets review Sigs latest turd pistol. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. Wont last!. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. 2. Asking for a friend. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. Fair enough. Sound familiar? Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . But this time, the sound bites used were different. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. And have the dropping 320 go off? I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again.